Katja Herbers plays Kristen Bouchard on Evil, which has just concluded its second season on Paramount+ in the US and is halfway through on Alibi in the UK. Her sceptical forensic psychologist has been taken to dark places as the series has progressed with season 1 concluding with her murdering a threat to her children. She chatted with Paul Simpson a couple of weeks before the season concluded about her development.

NB Full spoilers up to and including episode 6 of season 2, with mild spoilers for the next four episodes.

 

I am really waiting to see where the last two episodes go, particularly after reading you had to go and sit in a dark room after you’d read 13. I’m expecting that to go to some very dark places.

Yes, that was a little bit of a joke but when I read it I felt that it was maybe one of the most challenging scenes that I’ve ever played. So I had to figure out a way, emotionally, to get there. I think it’s going to be a cliffhanger that everyone can be excited about.

That’s good and of course we know that we’ve got season three anyway.

We’re about to film it, we’ll film it in November so it’ll be a while.

How did you get involved in the show in the first place?

I got sent the pilot script and I was asked if I wanted to play it, after a meeting with [creators and showrunners] Robert and Michelle [King]. Obviously I wanted to because it’s an amazing character and they are some of the most wonderful writers, creators and people in Hollywood so it was a pretty easy decision.

Did they expand on who she was beyond the pilot script or has the journey been as much of a mystery to you as it is to the audience?

I think they said to me that they promised to make it a character as versatile as Julianna Margulies’ character in The Good Wife and better than that. I thought that was just such a legendary journey that she went on and I’ve been a fan of their work so I just trusted them entirely to write really interesting stuff – and yes, they really haven’t disappointed.

She’s been a few people already which I love, she just keeps becoming different. She started off being just a regular housewife/mom with a challenging job but definitely not a murderer.

When you read the script and you saw that you killed LeRoux, with the ice pick, were you expecting that? Or were you thinking ‘They’ll never go there with it?’

Well, the actual script [for the season 1 finale] was kind of ambivalent if she did it or not. I remember having a talk with Robert and Michelle about it and them not really knowing if they were going to make her a murderer or not. We just decided that I was going to play it as though I had killed this person and then we would figure it out in the second season.

I think the initial worry was maybe we’d lose sympathy for her but I was never very worried about that because she protected her children. I think a lot of people would be able, if pushed to the limit, to kill for their children. I can imagine that – I don’t have children but I can imagine if somebody tried to murder someone who’s most dearest to you, you’re going to have to take them out.

I’ve really enjoyed people saying things on Twitter, saying things like ‘She’s never done anything wrong in her life’ (laughs) or ‘She’s my spirit animal.’ They seem to love her taking charge, and I love her taking charge in that way.

I think she did the right thing. I think she’s struggling with the fact that she did it but I do think that she did the right thing. Nobody was doing anything about this guy and he was a serial killer.

To an extent that’s what her police friend says at the end of episode six as well isn’t it? Basically, you were taking out the trash

Yes that’s such an interesting episode to me. The other storyline in that episode is the senseless killing of this Black mother in her car, unarmed and the [white] guy, the cop who killed her, not being held accountable for what he did and while me, also a white woman, not being held accountable for what I did. I can assure you that if Kristen was Black that’s not how it would have gone down.

I absolutely love that scene because I think she’s both very relieved, obviously, to not have to go to jail for the rest of her life and still be able to be a mother but I think also in that scene she realises she’s forever going to be in some sort of prison of guilt. I think the guilt is now not just ‘I killed someone’ or ‘I’m a murderer’ but now the guilt is also ‘I am not in jail because of my privilege and because I’m white and because…’ Her cop friend says it quite literally, ‘You have a friend who’s a cop, you’re a suburban mom, you drive a station wagon, nobody’s going to think that you’re a murderer’.

I think that really is her luck but it’s also her privilege, it also really gets under her skin and she’s going to have to deal with that… survivor’s guilt, shall we say.

I think that that’s one of the lovely things that the second season’s given you is that moral ambivalence and how far will she push herself or allow herself to be pushed…

Yes and I think we’re playing with the idea that she’s become different – and with the burning of the cross in her hand at the end of the first season, could she be possessed? Very quickly she finds a reason why that burn happened that has nothing to do with possession. She doesn’t believe in possession but things keep happening and I think  Kristen, she keeps going back to science. Even if there’s doubt she’ll think, ‘No, I need different medication or..’

That’s something that’ll also continue on in the second season, playing around with if she is evil, has the dark side gotten to her? Which she doesn’t believe in and I personally don’t believe in but it is something that we play around with which I think is fun.

All three of the main characters have their own “inner demons”…

Yes.

And I think that’s one of the things that the second season has done well is there has been the “the case of the week” but each has reflected something about you or Aasif or Mike’s characters, rather than throwing you into a situation, as occasionally happened in that first year.

Yes, I think now we’ve spent more time with these characters and as there’s more and more story that we already know, everything becomes richer.

Nothing that the Kings do is gratuitous. It might not all reveal itself as quick as sometimes maybe the viewer would like because they’re like ‘What’s that about?’ But they will get to it.

I saw Robert wrote something to a fan who was asking about ‘What is this? Are we going to find out?’ and he says ‘60% you’ll find out from watching this season, 30% we’ll take to the next season and 10% is just fun that we’re having’ (laughs) The little bit of mystery; people are just paradoxical and you can’t explain everything. I just thought that was a great way to put it.

[Executive producer] When Rockne S. O’Bannon and I chatted about the show he mentioned that in the writers room they’ve got this list of the hanging chads, the things that have still to be sorted out.

(Laughs) That’s fun,

One of the things that we haven’t seen as much of this season, which I really loved in the first, was you and Leland or you and Michael Emerson. The impression I got from watching those scenes was both of you were obviously thoroughly enjoying playing them. Would that be a fair assessment of it? Because they were heightened to put it mildly.

Oh yes, there’s something ahead. [Editor’s note: Is there ever!] But he’s nothing to me anymore. I feel like when she took him out verbally at the end of the first season and revealed that he was Jake the Flake, she just destroyed him with that speech. I think she just looked at him as pathetic and no longer a real threat.

But she’s not right to think that he’s not a real threat because obviously what he’s doing to Sheryl, to her Mom… Kristen thinks they’re no longer together. I think I was rather quick to take my Mom back in but I needed help with the kids and I only have one mother! So I think my assessment of how dangerous he is is off but you’re right, I see less of him. He’s more focused on David now. You could argue he’s gotten me over to the dark side, I’m no longer this sweet mother, I am actually a murderer. So the biggest fish for him is David who’s so close to God.

The other thing that I think is wonderful is the scenes with the girls.

They’re so lovely.

I don’t want to look ahead too far but the scene with Lexis in episode 10 about body shaming and everything like that, just felt so earned between the two of you.

Yes, when I tell her she’s beautiful. I loved that, and on the day I found it a moving scene. I watched the episode and I thought it was so nicely done. She was a very good parent and I think that’s why people still like Kristen – she’s genuinely a good mom within her flaws. She really loves these girls and would do anything for them. I thought that was very beautiful, very beautifully done.

 

Evil continues on Alibi in the UK, and can be streamed on Paramount+  

 

If you want to look ahead to forthcoming episodes our reviews (not necessarily spoiler free) are below