Jacob Dudman is perhaps best known currently for his contributions to the Doctor Who Lockdown videos produced by Emily Cook, but has built a strong reputation for his performances as various incarnations of the Doctor for Big Finish. To mark the release of Alfie Shaw’s Regeneration Impossible – which sees the 11th and 12th Doctors interacting – he chatted with Paul Simpson…

 

What made you want to go into acting? Was it something you had from day one, as far as you can remember? Or was it a conscious thought that that’s a career, something I can do?

I always say that I fell into acting by mistake really because I never wanted to do it, then I went to film school to learn to be a director and I took an acting class on the weekends to understand it from a directing point of view. That was like my dark little secret really, it was like, “Oh I really like this”. But I fell in love with it and then started going and auditioning for things whilst I was meant to be in lectures.

But before then were the impressions online and that was a completely different thing entirely .They feel like totally separate worlds to me – that was something I just did for fun.

I used to do it a lot in the playground

Teachers and…

Oh yes, teachers absolutely. The teachers were where I got the laughs. No one liked the teachers.

A lot of actors do say, ‘Oh I came out of the womb singing and dancing’ and all this sort of stuff. Acting for me is, I just get to go back to being a kid again. Since I got into acting all of the photos that I look back on when I was a kid. I was just wearing a Thunderbirds costume or a Buzz Lightyear costume. I was running around being these characters. Of course I was going to be an actor! I just went around doing silly voices and pretending to be other people all the time.

Some people want to put on another character because they don’t want to be themselves. Other people just enjoy the transfer into another character. Were you using impressions to deal with bullying, or deflect problems, or was it just t a talent that you had?

I luckily didn’t really have to deal with any bullying or deflect anything that I was struggling with personally.

I was sixteen and on a very particular path. I’d just chosen my A Levels and they were all science based and I was going to go and do physiotherapy or something boring at university. I was looking for a hobby because I’d done my back in and wasn’t able to play football anymore, which was my life, pre that injury.

I was trying different new things on, I joined different clubs at school. That was the time when I did the first Matt Smith impression and it was around the same time that I auditioned for a school play. So it was like the stars aligned

When you did the audition, were you auditioning as you or as Matt?

(laughs) I was auditioning as me!

One of the reasons for asking about the acting first, whether it was a separate thing, is that there are many people who can imitate but there aren’t as many who can act.

That’s true.

Finding someone who can do both, yourself, Jon Culshaw people like that, are gifts to producers.

Oh sure, I think that you have to be an actor first; you can’t just have a vocal likeness. I think whilst my 12th Doctor is improving it’s not a likeness similar to Matt’s and I wouldn’t be doing the Chronicles if I couldn’t bring it to life from an acting point of view. I always think I’m hired as an actor first.

You’ve been polishing your Peter Capaldi voice in public to all intents and purposes haven’t you?

Sure, yes.

I can remember the first time when I thought yes, there are moments that are pure Capaldi, whereas in one of the 12th Doctor Chronicles I genuinely forgot it wasn’t him.

Thank you.

The Short Trip Regeneration Impossible was Matt and Peter. That’s an aural tour de force for you. Basically you’re playing different incarnations of the same character plus the bad guy who happens to be one of those incarnations. What did you think when you got the script? Did Alfie discuss the nature of the script with you beforehand?

Thankfully he didn’t ambush me with it but yes, I took it as a challenge.

The other thing that was difficult about that was that we had done another Short Trip that day as well. They released a silly trailer where Nick is announcing the story, and then the 12th Doctor and 11th Doctor cut in. When I’m listening to that, I can hear how sore my throat is at the end. Right at the end of the day, stumbling to get my coat on they’re like ‘Oh could we just record this one other thing’.

But it was really fun and because we did them separately that helped. I did say to them, OK fantastic I would love to do this but it might be better performance wise if I do one at a time rather than flitting between them.

One of the things that made this work is the fact that Capaldi interrupts Smith and Smith interrupts Capaldi. So which did you do first, Matt or Peter?

I imagine I probably did Peter first because I can do Matt blindfolded and in my sleep, so if I’m lagging it’s almost automatic. I think that was in the afternoon; in the morning we’d done a 12th Doctor Short Trip, so I think it was whilst we’re in that mode.

Matt you’ve been doing for years and, like you say, you can do that in your sleep. You’re not researching that; you know how it’s going to feel and how he’s going to deliver it. But with Peter Capaldi, do you need to go back in and effectively re-assimilate yourself within that aural era or can you drop back in?

I think I’ve done it enough that I can drop back in.

I remember having a really interesting conversation with Jon Culshaw. He was telling me that 80% of impressions is in the listening. I think that’s true. I’ve found that with certain impressions I’ve listened to. Years ago I heard it and thought it was really good but as [the impressionists] either bought into their own hype, or their impression has suddenly become their version of this impression, then it becomes further and further drawn away from it because it’s like, the only reference you have of the impression is your own voice.

I found myself with Matt slightly doing that because it was like, “I know I can do this so I’ll just do it” and then suddenly when I was hearing Matt’s voice, I was actually just hearing my voice doing Matt. I can hear the difference.

I’m constantly going back, particularly with the 12th Doctor and the 10th Doctor and the 9th Doctor who I’ve done some stuff as.

When you’re researching for a script, are there certain key lines in that where you would try to find Capaldi saying something similar or just is it actually swimming in a sea of Capaldi, so to speak?

There are certainly certain words that I hook onto but with scripts like Regeneration Impossible – and I’m not doing that actory thing of shifting the attention – it really genuinely is a lot easier when the script is so well written. Alfie knows those characters so well that he knows what Capaldi would say. I find it easier to do these scripts with any of the Doctors if when I’m reading it I’m going “Yes, I can totally hear them saying that.” If I can’t hear them saying it then I don’t know how the words are going to come out of my mouth sounding like them..

Is that to a certain extent that you are protecting the character you’re playing?

I think I’m always conscious that it’s someone else’s shoes that I’m filling and placeholding really, but trying to do it as best I can and in my own way as much as possible. I think for me it’s more about wanting to get my performance right and just having writing that I think is true to the character helps.

I’ve found it in TV as well, where I’ve gone, “Hang on a minute this isn’t the character I know” but what’s written is written, and it’s like well, someone’s written it and supposedly they know the character so you’ve just got to trust that you can make it work. It’s your job to make it work, I think, as an actor. Whatever’s written on the page you have to bring it to you.

When you’re doing something like Regeneration Impossible, are you playing the 11th and 12th Doctors or are you playing Matt Smith as the 11th Doctor or Peter Capaldi as the 12th? You’re either giving a performance of Matt’s Doctor or you are performing as the 11th Doctor, that difference.

If you were in the studio you’d see me making very silly mannerisms. I sort of turn into a praying mantis when I’m playing the 12th Doctor and I’m bumbling, stumbling around the studio when I’m playing Matt’s Doctor. I think by the words I’ve chosen there that probably answers your question.

I think the 11th Doctor Chronicles Volume 2 is the first time where rather than playing a narrator and voicing a character, I just have been cast as the character. I’m coming in and playing the 11th Doctor and that is the first time I think I’ve gone in and it’s just my take on the 11th Doctor as opposed to right, now I have to put Matt’s head on.

Can you listen to yourself back for pleasure, actually listen to the story, as opposed to not being able to see past the technical things or what was going on at the time of recording?

I can listen back. I struggled at first but I figured that was just my ego getting in the way because rather than listening to what was just made, which is an amalgamation of a lot of different people’s talents, I was just listening to it to check and ultimately judge my performance.

I can enjoy it: Regeneration Impossible I was really dying to hear because I really enjoyed making that. I think Alfie’s script was great and I get to listen to the 11th Doctor meets the 12th Doctor. As well, there are things I record where I either forget what happened or it’s such a blur because you’re so in it doing one scene at a time that you can’t appreciate the story as a whole.

You have done various stories for the Lockdown Doctor Whos but I think the one that will last is Farewell Sarah Jane. Did you watch The Sarah Jane Adventures growing up?

I watched some of them. I was certainly engaged with the first two or three and I always loved it because it was of that Doctor Who world. Aside from that show, Sarah Jane was always a companion that I loved. It’s the only era that I’ve visited in classic Who properly really, after School Reunion and then The Stolen Earth. I loved this character so I then went back and watched her and Pertwee and Tom Baker.

I remember when she died, Doctor Who Confidential or someone put a little video together and being really weirdly sad about it and not quite understanding how.

She was always this symbol of hope and love.

Emily Cook [producer of the Lockdown specials] explained how it was all going to work and I was amazed that she even thought that she had to ask.

That was actually the one thing I’ve done with Lockdown where… I don’t know if nervous is the right word but I was conscious of wanting to do it right because I knew how much it meant to me and how much she means to so many people.

I was ten or eleven when Sarah came on the first time, so yes, Sarah was my companion.

She’s been with us for so long. But it was really fun and I edited that as well.

That’s another thing that I watched and enjoyed at it came out because I was so deep in the edit, doing bits at a time, trying to get Katy Manning to smash a vase at the right point, that I didn’t appreciate it as a whole and then when I watched it, it got me quite emotional.

But while I was in it, when I was in the edit, it didn’t get to me at all. Maybe because I had a job to do.

When you are emotionally involved, you sometimes have to regard it as a job or work and then afterwards you can watch it, and you can be part of the emotion that you’ve helped create. It sounds horribly manipulative but it isn’t.

No, it’s just dealing with the job at hand at the time isn’t it? And then when it went out, I watched it t so it felt like I was enjoying it when everyone else was as well. Even though I knew what was coming.

What do you look for in a script?

Something that I think has a very human aspect to it, I think that there are certain themes that draw me. If I can relate to a character then I feel like there’s something to them. Not relate to them personally like “Oh, I can see a little bit of me in this”, but more like if I read a script and a character in particular has depth to them, if there’s a world of fascination that feels three dimensional.

For me, the era of Doctor Who that was most alive and kicking in my mind and the ones that probably if I was to receive a script I would want to do, would be Jackie Tyler’s council flat rather than other eras where characters seem plucked out of thin air and I don’t care about who’s talking down the street in the mechanic’s round the corner.

Also if I feel that I can bring something to it. Sometimes things come through and it’s like, “This is great and this is a great role and a great project but I don’t think that I’m the right person for it”. Maybe that comes from a filmmaking background.

If I don’t feel like I’m the right person for it then what’s the imposter syndrome going to be like? (laughs)

Equally if somebody else brings a script to you it’s because they can see something that they think you can bring to it?

Sure.

So there is that element as well: that somebody can see something in your performance that that side could be magnified or if you went further down that route…

Well, I think no role is unplayable to me and I like the idea of always stretching myself in different ways but there’s something that sticks. I always go with my gut. This seems like something I should be doing or me and this fits.

 

Regeneration Impossible is available now from Big Finish.

Thanks to Nick Briggs for assistance in setting up this interview.